tv Charlie Rose WHUT November 8, 2011 3:00am-4:00am EST
>> rose: welcome to our program, to want from the headquarters of facebook in palo alto, california, an exclusive conversation with mark zuckerberg, the founder and c.e.o. of facebook and his most valuable friend and c.o.o. of facebook, sheryl sandberg. they are the driving force behind one of the most exciting and powerful companies in the digital world with 800 million users and counting. you know what excites me about facebook... >> well, you canoin. we have many openings. >> rose: (laughs)
i do. it is this point. it is the notion that very soon you're going to reach a billion. when will that happen? >> i don't know. >> rose: when do you think it will happen? >> well, everyday we're closer. >> it's now 800 plus and counting. >> yes. >> rose: it is going to be in 20? >> i think if we do well it might be later next year, yeah. >> rose: will that be a huge celebration? >> yeah. i think... i think it's going to be something we're going to be really proud of. >> rose: zuckerberg and sandberg for the hour.
captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: mark zuckerberg, only 27 and worth an estimated $17 billion started facebook as a harvard frhman in 2004. he, like bill gates and steve jobs before him, dropped out of college to make his company in 2010 he was "time" magazine's person of the year. sheryl sandberg-- married and the mother of two-- came from a different place. she was a hugely successful google executive after serving as chief of staff in the
secretary the treasury. she is a graduate of harvard university and harvard business school. she was namedost powerful woman in business. mark recruited her from ogle in 2008. >> i was at n google at the time. >> rose: did you think hmm... >> well, a few people who i really respect had pointed cherylut as someone who could be a really good partner for me at facebook. i was just really interested because i had a lot of respect looking at what you built and wanting to get a sense for the ssons that you lef learned and how can i apply those things at facebook? after that i went away over new year's break and i got back and said i'm going to spend more time learning from sheryl. >> i think that we spent most of our time talking about what we both cared about and what motivated us and i could see from mark that what he really
wanted to build was something that was, you know, fundamentally going to change who we are and how we interact. >> rose: together they have taken facebook to its dominance of social media and made it an enormously valuable company worth more than $80 billion. here's what "time" magazine said in 2010 when i named zuckerberg person of the year. "in less than seven years, zuckerberg wired together a 12th of humanity into a single network thereby creating a social entity almost twice as large as the unitedtates. if facebook were a count, it would be the third-largest behind only china and india. it start out as a dark, a diversion, but it has turned into something real, something that has changed the way human beings relate to one another on a species-wide scale. facebook has merged with the social fabric of american life and not just american but human life. nearly half of all americans have a facebook account, but 80% of facebook users live outside
the united states. it's a permanent fact of our global, social reality. we have entered the facebook age and mark zuckerberg is the man who brought us here." and sheryl sandberg jinsz mark zuckerberg and facebook to help it to new levels of consequence. tell me what the mission is today for facebook. you've got 800 million and counting users. it's extraordinary. someone said it's the most expansive human enabler of human communications it's ever been. so what's the mission. where is this thing going? >> the stated mission of the company is to make the world more open and connected. and the idea is that when you give people this ability to stay connected with the people they care about and you make it so they can express new things about themselves or in commication with oth people who they care about then you
open up these new possibilities. you make it so people can stay connected in ways they can len about, they can learn about things happening in the world or the ability to organize new things or learn about new products or movies oar music they want to listen to. opens up a lot of new possibility when you can keep all of these cnections open to the people that you care about. so obviously a big part of the mission is connecting different people in the world. one of the things we are pud of is now 800 million people around the world are using facebook every month anderhaps even crazier, it's mind blowing from my perspective. but more than half a billion people use facebook everyday. i think that's crazy. >> rose: 500 million plus people... >> and it's growing everyday. and if you just look back seven years for when we were getting started, there would have been no way that we have been... (laughter) >> could you think of500 million people in your dm room?
>> i used to talk to a lot of my friends when i was in college, we used to go out to get pizza every night and we used to talk about what we thought was going to happen in the world and on the internet and we thought that there would be something like this. it seemed pretty much inevidentble thapeople would have a way to connect and that they would be able to express all these things and that there would be tools to make not just a social network but that every product you use is better off with your friends. we figure there had would be tools for that. but the surprise is that we've made a big role in making that happen and when we were in college we figured who were we to do this? maybe we can create a community for ouelves in college but clearly itill another company... >> rose: but it's a web within a web, is it not? it's a personized web within the web. no? >> i think it's shaping the broader weapon. i mean, right now if you look back for the past five or seven years, the story of social networking has really been about getting these 800 million people connected, right? so they can stay in touch with
these peoplehey care about and gettg them signed up for facebook and all that. but if you look forward for the next five years, i think the story that people are going to remember five years from now isn't how this one site was built, it was how every single service that you use will be better with your friends because they can tap into your friends. so whether it's music services. we just announced this new product a little more than a month ago and since then some of the music services that are out there, spotify has grown from more than three million users wi facebook toow more than seven milln users. another service has grown from i think it's a relatively small number of subscribers but it's grown by four or five times. i think it shows all of these different products are better when you're doing them with your friends. do you want to go to the movies by yourself or with your friends? >> rose: or do you want to know what your friends like?
>> the wisdom of crowds to the wisdom of friends. >> rose: the wisdom of crowds being... so that's google versus facebook right there. >> i don't think it's google versus facebook. >> rose: it the wisdom of crowds versus the wisdom of friends? >> i think the wisdom of crowds applies not just to google but to a phase of the web which is about information and links and it was about wonderful things mostly based on anonymity and links between crowds. what did the crowd thing? ours starts from a totally different place so it is an evolution. the information web still exists it's still broadly use. but the social web didn't exist before. the social web can't exist until you are your real self on line. i have to be me, he has to be mark zuckerberg, you have to be charlie rose, once we are ourselves connected to our friends then you can have the evolutn of what becomes the social web. not justn facebook but throughout. >> rose: what is it able people that people want to be on facebook. they want to talk about
themselves. what is the essence of that. >> i think they have a core desire to express who the are. i think it's one of the things that me us human. but, yeah... and to know what's going on with yourrien' lives. nojust your friends but people you care about. but people who you're interested and who aren't your friends or are on the periphery of your social circle. so, yeah, i think those are core human needs and until facebook there wasn't a great tool for doing that. but i think a lot of that and building that up was the last five years. the next five years is going to be abo okay, now you're connected to these people, now you can have a better music listening experience, a better movie watching experience, see what your friends are reading and what news you should read first. all of these things i think are going to get better and tt's the thing i'm most excited about. if we do well five years from now people will look back and y, wow, over the last five
years all these products have gotten better because i'm not doing this stuff alone, i'm doing it with my friends. >> rose: and it's personal. it's not just that you're bring your friends with you. it becomes personal to you. so if you look at how people use most of the webs, most products out there, if you're logged in, if i looked over your two shoulders you see the same stuff. it's produced for the masses and ours is different. >> rose: is it key to the monetization of the future the fact that advertisers will believe this is the best way to reach people who are likely to buy their products? >> marketersave alwayswanted personal relationships with their consumers or where con sun do two things: buy their products and tell their friends to buy their products. marketers have been looking for that person who won't just buy but spread the word to their friends. what we do on facebook is we enable marketers to find that and if i do it on facook i'm sharing with an average of 130 people. so it becomes word-of-mouth marketing at scale so people can tell each other what they like, which is for marketers the thing
they've been looking for for a long time. >> rose: then why do you want to be a public company? why do you even think about an i.p.o.? >> i actually think the biggest thing for us is that a big part of being a technology company is getting the best engineers and designers and talented people around the world. and one of the ways that you can do that is you compensate people with equity or options. so you get people who want to join the company both for the mission because they believe that facebook is doing this awesome thing and they want to be a part of connecting everyone in the world but also if the company does well they get financially rewarded and can be set. and we've made this impcit promise to our investors and employees that by compensating them with equity and by giving them equity that at some point we'll make that equity worth something publicly and liquidly, in a liquid way. now, the promise isn't that we're going to do it on a short-term timeorizon. the promise is that we're going to build this company so that it's great over the long term and that we're aays making
these desessions for the long term. >> rose: but it will be a liquid dividend. >> whether it's a dividend or not, they'll be able to trade their equity for money. that's something we take seriously as the responsibility of running the company. and we've... we care deeply about the employees and the investors that have been there with us. >> rose: that has groupon experience and other things changed your sense of the timing of an i.p.o.? >> i don't think so. >> not really. >> no. >> rose: you'll go when what? >> when we're ready. >> when it makes sense. >> rose: what will tell you when it makes sense? >> i don't know. it's a good question. >> rose: you'll just know. >> i mean... yeah. it's... honestly it's not something i spend a lot of time on a day to day basis thinking about now. >> rose: how do you measure the impact that we now believe social media played in the arab spring. obviously you had to be interested in that because it had a reality and it changed governments. what have you come to understand about that? >> my personal take on this is
that it's... that social media's role is maybe a bit overblown in that. i mean, the way i think about it is that if people want change then they will find a way to get that change. so whatever technology they may or may not have used was neher a necessary nor sufficient case for getting to the outcome that they got to but having people who want a chang was. so i mean i hope that facebook and other internet technologies were able to help people just like we hope we help them communicate and organize eve single day. but i don't pretend that if facebook didn't exist this wouldn't have been possible. of course it would have. >> rose: but it was certainly accelerated. do you know any effort where governments because of that are trying to shut down facebook? in terms ofing a snesz >> there are examples intermittently throughout the world all the time. >> and there are places we're not available. china is the big one.
>> rose: so how do you see that going into china and if, in fact it requires some censorship, does that make it it a don't go? >> if your mission is to connect the entire world for all the reasons, you can't connect the whole world and not china. that's not something we're focused on right now because it's not a decision we have to make. so you are correct whe and if we go into china... >> rose: a billion and a half people. >> we'll have issues but since for right now we're not available and we don't have immediateaths to become available these are not policy decisions we have to make. >> rose: it's not on the immediate horizon to go into china. and the reason is, is it because of what happened to google? >> so it's not really our choice. it's the government's choice, you know? we're not available because they've chosen... >> rose: because they acted a ceain way, you've chosen not to go there. >> no it's... yeah. at some point i think tre wod be discussion around what it would take to go there and at
that point we have to figure out whether we were willing to do that. but the way we look at it now is there's so many other places in the world where we can connect more people more easily without having to face those hard questions. i think a simple rule in business is if you do the things that are easier first then you can actually make a lot of progress. we talk about running facebook for the long term and over the decades in which we hope to run and build facebook, i would imagine this would be a question that we have to answer. right now there's so much room for growth in a lot of other countries that it's not the top thing we're worried about right now. >> rose: to achieve your objective that you want to do, the expansion, the connection, the advertising revenue how important and where do you put making sure that facebook gets more of the best engineers than anybody else regardless of where you have to steal them. >> first, second, and third.
(laughs) >> it's really important. >> we attract them. not steal. >> if you go to google and ask about you they say steal. >> attract. >> rose: he brought you from google and brought other people om google. >> he attracted me. >> rose: do you think larry would believe it was attraction or theft? (laughs) >> wel we're not property in the united states. i'm fairly certain he would say... but you're getting an important question which is now engineering talent in this country, which there is not enough of. so we would hire lots more people, google would hire lots more people, every company we know of has more desire for engineers. >> rose: has more need for the talented engineers and you can't find them. >> can't find them. >> rose: how much of that is because of u.s. immigration policy. >> some. >> a lot of it is just education. i think there's not enough supply of engineers to meet the demand. all of my friends whohave
younger siblings who are going to college or high school, my number one piece of advice is you should learn how to program. i think the future all kinds of jobs, not even just straight engineering jobs but all kinds of different jobs will involve some element of programming and i just look at... you know, when i was in school and i remember the average salary that an engineer, one of my computer science classmates got and it's gone up at least 50%, maybe even doubled in the last seven years since i was at school. and i think the reason is that the economy is shifting and there are more companies that are growing that are these technology and software-focused companies and the skill set of being able to write code is so highly in mand that... and the amount of engineers who were graduating isn't growing at a fast enough rate that the people who are there are just in more demand and they get paid more. >> re: >> and we have both an education program... program and immigration problem. we don't graduate enough kids
from high school in this country have from having these skills. we're absolutely far off: and the immigration policy you talked about is very real. someone made a joke. we give a huge percentage of the spots in our engineering undergrad and grad program to people from other countries and then we kick them out. it's like aompany we have facebook training and we train everyone and we say "you can't work here, go work for our competitors." that's what we do as a country. people talk about stapling. we should be stapling a green card to every high tech diploma. those ople, not only do they not take jobs from other americans, they create jobs for other americans. there are so me stories on this. we have one guy named javier who works here. he was one of the best engineering studen in spain nationwide. came to stanford to get his m.b.a., started here, works with us and created our intel nationalization tools, he runs our internationalization projects. we serveost of th world from the united states. it's the opposite of what
everyone thinks is happening. we're not hirg out there to serve here. we're serving... we entered the lottery for him and we won, if we had lost, we would have moved those jobs to wherever he could work but because we got him a visa, those jobs stay here. >> rose: all right, let me ask this question at the heart of the debate going on in america which is the competition of america with the rest of the world. fabook came out of america, apple came out of america, microsoft came out of america, google came out of america. are those things going to be coming... those kinds of companies, the kind of company you created more likely to come from china tomorrow? >> i think there's two big ingredients. one of the big parts of the facebook story was that i didn't have to have some master pla in the beginning. i didn't have to have a lot of money. i literally coded facebook in my dorm room and launched it from my dorm room. i rented a serveror $85 a month and funded it by putting an ad on the side and we've
funded it ever since by putting ads on the side. literally just starting small and growing it. so i think you need two things. onis the ability to have engineers and educate engineers who can try out their own ideas and the second is e ability to try out their own ideas and the freedom to do that. the u.s. historally has been extremely good at both. we've led in education and we've fled freedom and suppoing people trying risky things >> free market economics. >> rose: and a sense of innovation and creativity. >> public policy that supports entrepreneurship. in america you can hire and fire. in america you can start a company without going through endless bureaucratic red tape even though it's growing a bit, right? in america we've had a country of entrepreneurs. we have set up our political system so you can start companies, you can close companies. i think people don't always see the costs of increasing bureaucracy on entrepreneurship. the best people will go where they can get the best talent and
where we have the best environment. >> rose: speaking of environment how is your culture, say, different the culture you saw at google. what is the facebook culture? >> when i think about this, if you compare facebook and google to, you know, most of the world to other companies and industries, they're in some ways incredibly similar. they are founder-led silicon valley based technology companies. >> rose: driven by engineering. >> they're very similar. in the little silicon valley bubble in which we live they're totally different. >> how so? >> a couple things. >> rose: (laughs) >> one is that google is fundamentally... >> rose: you're interested, too. >> i'm interested to hear what she'll say as well. >> google is fundamentally about algorithms and machine learning and that continues to be very important. they're doing a great job. we start from a totally different place. we start from an individual. who are you? what do you want to do? what do you want to share? for us, the visn of the world is that we are like a hacking
culture and we mean that in the best of ways, we do not mean scary people breaking into your home or anything. >> rose: or espionage. >> or espionage. >> we mean we build things quickly and ship them. so we are not aiming for, you know, perfection that comes over years and we ship a product. we don't work on things for years and ship it. we work on things, ship them, t feedback from the people who use it, get feedback from the world, we it rate, we it rate, we it rate. we have these great signs around "done is better than perfect." "what would you do if you wen't afraid?" it's very much a culture. >> rose: perfect is bet enemy good. >> it's very different from a culture where your taking the web and have a primary mission to organize something that's out there. we have a culture where we place a big premium on moving quickly and one of the big theories i had about that was that all technology companies and probably all companies slow down
dramatically as they grow but if we can focus at every step of the way moving quicker maybe when we're around 2,500 or 3,000 people now, maybe we move as quickly as a possible that only has 500 people because we've invested so much in building up the infrastructure and tools and also the culture that tells people to ke risks and try thing out i think that ability to build stuff quicker will hp us build better products in the long term >> rose: i want to talk about the future and competition. there are many people who look to siliconalley and there are four platforms out here, amson, apple, google, facebook. and what we're going to witness over the next ten years is a flat out war between the four of you for the future. how do you see that? >> i mean, people like to talk about war >> and conflict. >> rose: and conflict. >> there are a lot of ways in
which the companies work together. there are real competitions in there. but i don't think this is going to be the type of situation where there's one company that wins all the stuff. >> rose: but you're already getting in each other's businesses. >> yes and no. >> rose: there's sometng called google plus. >> yes and no. i think... google i think in some ways is more competitive than... and certainly is trying to build their own version of facebook. but when i look at amazon and aing, when i see companies who are extremely aligned with us. and we have a lot of conversations with peoplat both companies just trying to figure out ways we can do more together a there's a lot of reception there. i can't think of an apple product or amazon product that i look at and is like "oh, that's...". >> rose: but amazon just announced a new kindle fire. their tablet can compete with the ipad! >> and that's cool. th can both have tablets. >> rose: there are no borders
out here in terms of what you might want to do. come on, sheryl. >> there are no borders for us. >> rose: exactly! >> we want everything to be social and we want... prefer everything to be social with facebook. and so for us our goal is to work across. we want to work on every tablet. >> this is the important part. >> and apple and amazon, god bless them, they can compete... >> rose: you've got a device and we want to be seen on it. >> so if you're amazon one of the big strategies is sell kindle so you can sell more things. if you're apple a big part of your strategy is sell devices because that's how you make money. if you're google they want to get... android as widely adopted as possible. >> rose: therefore they go out and buy motorola. for example. >> little purchase on the side. >> rose: and there are rumors that microsoft may buy nokia. >> sure, but our goal is not to build a platform, it's to be across all of them. because our mission is to help people connectnd stay connected with people no matter
what devices they're on. >> buthis is really important and gets back tohe differences before w google and facebook. there's one thing that i think is most important which is that we're focused on doing one thing incribly well. we want to do one thing. >> rose: social media. >> connect the world >> rose: fair enough. and be the social technology peop use. i think if you look at other companies all of these companies are doing lots of different things but we are still doing exactly one thing. >> rose: but there's nothing you think you can't do. >> i think we're going to go in a different direction. because it is true that there's a corollary to what you just said. it's true we're focused on this one thing but because there's stuff out there, that means facebook has evolved as a partnership company. >> that's right. sfloo >> which is very different the way apple or google or amazon or any of those folks are. if apple or google wants to build a product they go build it. whereas if facebook wants to make it so that... we want to
rethink the y people will be to music or watch movies. what do we do? we build a platfor on top of which people can connect and we enable all these different companies, dozens of companies, to plug in big companies, small companies, things that don't even exist. it's a difrent apprch than what these other companies have. >> rose: but the end result is you want to provide a means for people to look at movies, listen to music. >> but they carry other people's services. >> we don't want to provide the means. our one thing that is the basis of our partnership approach, we build the social technology, they provide the music. >> exactly. >> we don't want people to use facebook to watch movies or read newspaper articles. >> rose: what to do what? >> we want to provide the social technology. we want to listen to music on the iphone or through apple or through spotify or anything they want. we want them to watch movies anywhere. we just want facebook to be how they share wherever they are.
so we do one thing which is we have this huge partnership strategy and it makes us i think pretty different than many of the other companies. >> just take the movies thing as an example. >> we don't care where you watch. >> the biggest movies companies are netflix and hulu building building on our platform. and hulu is on the t.v. side. but people can share all kinds of videos they're watching. you can see the top things your friends are watching. could go to your profile or timeline and if you want you can have a box up there, what are the t.v. shows that you watch the most and i can click on it, it will take know the hulu app d i n start watching that. that think is powerful the piece facebook is doing is saying okay, we're friends and allowing you to share that... i want to express to people what are the t.v. shows that i like and now facebook is giving me a place to go see what you want to watch if you want to share that. fromhere you click on it and it takes you to hu or netflix
and if you want to listen to music it takes you to spot phi. >> dave: but is that your sense that the future belongs to social networking? >> i think it's a big piece of it is. it's not everything if you think about it how many things you do have better with your friends? probably a lot. not everything. >> rose: almost everything. but for all of those things some of themwe'll build ourselves. so the core experience where i can learn stuff about you, we'll build that piece. the core piece where the things with your friends that they wanted to share, but the piece where you try to consume a specific type of content, i want to see what news my friends are reading, that will be newspapers or... >> this is why this matters because we can win along with
lots of a other people and that's totally different about the strate. if the news becomes more social, that's great for facebook, if it happens with our technology... >> because you're the great connector of the world. >> it's great for the "washington post" and the "new york times" and the huffington post and anyone who choos to use our technology which we make available tovery news service out there. we're t trying to replace everyone or do everything. we want to enable everyone... everything to be more social for everyone else. >> i think... it's a lot more extreme even than you're sing. the biggest industry that's gone social, the game companies are being disrupted and are quickly trying to become social. you have companies like zynga going public soon and will be valued most likely at multibillion dollar valuations and basically all of their games are built on top of facebook. >> rose: are exactly. >> and a huge number of other companies as well. so does facebook build games? no, we build no games. >> rose: you say that today. you say that today. >> i'm pretty sure we're not
going to build them. >> rose: why are you so sure? you're saying that because people thought that steve jobs would never go into retail and he did. >> i will tell you why. because building games is really hard. >> rose: so that's the only reason? >> and what we're doing is hard and we're better off focusing on this piece. building a great game service is really hd. building a great music service is really hard. building a great movie service is hard. we believe that an independent entrepreneur will always bet bate a division of an a big company which is why we think the strategy of these other companies trying to do everything themselves wi inevitably be less successful than a system where you have someone like facebook and independent great companies that are only focused on one or two things >> andcompanies get big and they... everyone wants to do everything and they say yes and then they don't do everything well. >> rose: at this point, enter this name, steve jobs.
with him once at "time" 100 and i was talking to a young entrepreneur who was obviously in awe and then thrilled, it was the greatest moment of his life, there was steve and i said to steve what should he do? and steve said to me he should focus on his knitting. no trying to do everything, do one thing well. did you ever have that conversation wh steve jobs? >> i don't know. one of the funny things is when you agree with someone you try not talk about it for too long because you take it as an assumption. i think in our conversations it might have been "yeah, that thing. let's talk about something else." >> rose: so what are the conversations like? >> i don't know. i mean he's... he's amazing. i mean he i had a lot of
questions for him on... >> rose: like what? >> on how to build a team around you that's focused on high quality and goodthings as you are how to keep an organization focused when the tendency for larger companies is to fray and go into these different areas. a lot just on the aesthetics and kind of mission orientation of companies. apple is the company that so focused on just building products that... for their customers and their users and that's such a deep part of their mission is build these beautiful products for their users. i think we connected a lot on this level of okay, facebook has this mission that'seally more than just trying to build a company.
we're trying to do this thing in the world a lot of... i think we connected on that level. >> rose: did he ever suggest apple might buy facebook? >> no. i don't think it ever got there nor would i have wanted to sell it. >> i think he would have known that. i talked to him, too, about this. >> rose: about what? the buying? >> i think he understood mark enough to know mark didn't want toell his company. >> rose he raised the question with you. >> no, but i think having talked to him about facook and apple... he didn't raise it but i don't think heould have because he would have understand that about mark. he wouldn't have wanted that. >> rose: but... go ahead. >> there's this quote i think the book that just came out about him. i took it as this amazing compment. he said "i admire facebook because he hasn't sold out." >> rose: right. >> i don't think he would have asked. >> i think that's one of the
ways in which eye to eye. it probably wouldn't have come up. >> rose: microsoft owns a piece of facebook. >> uh-huh. >> rose: you've had an opportunity, i'm sure, to sell. you'll never sell. is that a fair... >> no one even asksnymore. >> yeah. >> rose: it's too big now. nobody can afford you anymore. is that the central idea? >> yeah. >> rose: and you... can you imagine wanting to buy... >> we buy companies all the time. >> rose: but they're small companies and companies driven by certain expertise or software. >> i don't think that buying a company or selling a company is necessarily a go or a bad thing. i just think that the key thing that you need to realize is that when you go through a transaction like that, what you are changes. and if you're owned by someone else, than your goals are going to either quickly orver time become their goals.
so there are a lot of reasons why someone would sell a company and it would advance their mission. i think for example youtube might have been a good version of this. they had these huge expenses and google funded it and has grown it. >> rose: right, right. >> and it's grown into a good product. maybe beyond what the founders had hoped. >> rose: maybe had microsoft been able to buy yoo! it might have worked. >> maybe, it's hard to tell. but a lot of the acquisitions we make at facebook are... we look at great entrepreneurs out there who are building things and often the acquisitions aren't even to y their company or what they're doing, it's to get the talented people out there trying to build something cool and say, you know, if you joined facebook you cou work on this completely different problem. isn't this a more important problem? and for the people who answer that question yes they join. and that's how we've had the most success so far. >> rose: let me talk about what you know about all of us. it's the notion that constantly comes up. is there anything you don't want to know about...
>> i don't think we think about it that way. >> rose: he help me think about it in the right way. the "like" button... it's a powerful tool. >> it's not for us, though, right? it's for... >> it's for advertisers. >> not for advertisers. >> rose: for people. people relating to each other. >> this is a core part of what makes facebook facebook is that we really are focused on users first and for the long term. we believe that if we build a product where people can express things they want about themselves that over the long term we'll have people doing that because that's a core human thing where people want to do that and they'll be active and we'll have opportunities to sell advertising but none of that is the leading thing that we're pushing for. what we're pushing for is the mission. we think if we succeed on that we'll build a great business. /think there's a core part of
people where they want to express things about themselves. so the question is not what do we want to know about them? it's what do people want to tell about themselves. we try to answer that question continuously. what do people want to tell about themselves that they can't tell now? we think this year one of the big thins people want to express that they haven't had a way to are what are my favorite songs and different media i consume. there's been a way for you to type in, okay, my favorite band is green day or the beatles or whatever but there hasn't been a way to say, okay, as all the songs that i've listened to in the last month here are the top ones. in the monthr so sincwe've launched that functionality, people have chosen to publish more than a billion songs that they've listened to into facebook through partners. it's amazing. it's because they want to do that. >> rose: it's really important to understand thate don't want people to express anything we want them to have an opportunity express what they want to express. so privacy has been very core to this service.
i think it's one of the big innovations facebook had. if you think about online services before facebook, they're basically open or closed. something you publish on a blog, the blog is open. facebook was the first place that one of the core innovations mark had was around privacy. i could share it with my parents or my group of high school girl friends, or i can share it with all of facebook oar the whole world. and every single time you share something on facebook you have an opportunity to choose who you're sharing it with. and that mmitment to o users that their trust is sacred is something that's been here throughout and it's important for people. >> rose: but having said all of that when you got in trouble it's on the issue of privacy. >> i agree and it's something that... i think that just speaks to how important and fundamental of an issue is: when i was talking a minute about ago what
about are the ways that people want to share that we can make happen this year? one of the core things that flows through this ii'd say probably at is pointtill the vast majority of people don't want to share everything don't want to she everything publicly. but if you give them tools so they can share with their friends, one group of friends or family, they'll do it. >> rose: are they always the wisest people to know what they want to share and how sharing might be bound? >> i believe that they are. i mean, i think that... >> rose: you trust the judgment of most people who know who they want to share? >> i think people go through a learning process, too where when social networks were first ramping up on th web some people shared a few things too broadly but i think that's part of the reason why i think facebook has grown. i think facook existed after friendster and myspace.com phase
of the social web and at a point where people were already sophisticated enough to realize, hey, i want to share different things with different people. i'm going to use these privacy controls that facebook has given me that facebook is the first company that has built these controls so that you chare things with your friends or share vacation photos from my family vacation with just my family if want. i think that that's one of the big enablers. >> and it's somethinge continue to evolve. so control is what matters here. people want control. they want to share what they want with who they want and as long as as we roll out products we continue on the control. so for example we are launching... mark unveiled in the next bunch of weeks we're making our timeline, our new profile available to everyone. >> rose: what is that? >> so right now off profile and the timeline is a more visual representation of o you are and it includes further back in your life. not just when facebook started but further back. i spent the last week uploading childhood pictures. here's what matters.
going ba and change the privacy controls on something i've already. so if i build my timeline and say oh, i shared the with this group of people, i actually want to share that with more people or fewer, we are giving that control. so what matters as people learn is that they have the control they need to share with who they want and that's something we are continuing. >> rose: but there are stories that if somebody has something on their facebk page if something didn happen that mit have happened because they were silly enough or somehow to put something on their facebook page that rebounded to their detriment. >> rose: >> and ople make cell phone calls that rebound to their debt cement. >> rose: e-mail as well. >> or they put something bad on their resume. it's not that people don't make mistakes but the information you put on facebook is only available to employers if you're shared it to those people. if you've shared it openly. >> rose: but once it's there... >> there's a responsility individuals have. certainly we want to teach people and people want to teach
people to share the things they want to share. if you look at the history of technology what you aays find is that every new technology brings unbelievable opportunities for advance advancement and living our lives differently and it's scary. one of my favorite stories on this is caller i.d. when caller i.d was rolled out-- and i'm old enough to remember like is, unlike my friend-- >> no, i remember. >> do remember before caller snid >> yeah. >> rose: you don't remember before caller i.d., that's the point. >> i remember before everyone had it. >> all right, that's kind of sort of counts. but when caller i.d. came out there was a big privacy uproar. people thought it was a violation of the caller's privacy that their number would show. there was talk of legislation and banning it. >> rose: and away you could avoid it being seen. >> because it was considered... i don't know anyone who answers a call that doesn't have caller i.d. now because it's not considered a violation of that pracy,t's considered my right to know who's calling me, otherwise why would i answer. so, yes, when you are an early
leader like we are in technology there is always concern and you'll continue to be concerned. >> rose: you know why i have caller snid when i'm calling people i want them to know it's me calling rather than "unknown" because they're more likely to answer my call if they know it's me. >> rose: that's something caller i.d. is widely accepted. it was a privacy uproar at its time. >>ose: but tell mehere the boun reis are about privac that you think we ought to take note of at this moment because the privacy question most frequently comes back to facebook. >> here's the way i think about it. i think it's about control. people have things they want to share with maybe a single person or small group and they have things they want to share more broadly. and the real question for me is do people have the tools they need in order to make those decisions well? i think it's really important that facebook continuallyakes it easier and easier to make those decisions because the
demographics of people using facebook are changing as well. we started off with these people in college who use computers every single day and now we're up to 800 million plus users we have people using the site who it's one of the only things they do on a computer. and maybe they're not computer savvy and they don't spend time trying to figure out privacy contls. so we've made it any time you go to share anything the privacy control is right the and it says exactly who you're going to share with. if you're going to be sharing publicly there's a global and it says the word "public" and if you'll share with friends there's an icon of a few people and it says theord friends and u can click and change that really easily every time you post anything. back when we were getting started seven years ago i don't know if that was necessary because the college students and early adopter type folks had this intuitive understanding of how the service worked. but now i just tnk that the boundari... it's getting more and more important to be increasingly clear and give people those control a thas
what we're trying to do. and i think we'll need to keep on making it easier and easier. we have to do that because if people feel like they don't have control then wre failing them. we're making it so they can't chair stuff they want to. >> it's the case that people talk about facebook and privacy a lot and i think it will continue to be the case but it's because we lead in this area. meaning that we are the most privacy focused place for anyone to share anything. >> rose: well, no, it's because you have more information about everybody and anybody else. >> this isn important point. >> elliot trait has a great story he tells. he says there's an old joke where the man loses his keys and he's looking f the keys under the lamp post and someone says "why are you looking under the light? they're clearly not here?" he says "this is the only place i can see. if i go over there..." we are fosed on privacy. we care the most about privacy. our business model is by far the most privacy friendly to
consers and we talk about it the most and i think we're the light. we're the light. we are the transparent place where people can understand and i think you will continue to see conversations about facebook and privacy. >> it's worth explaining th more. when you're saying we're the light, it's because sure, people have information on facebook but that's information they put into the service. if you look into companies that are google or microsoft that have search engines and ad networks, they also have a huge amount of information about you. it's just that they're collecting that about you behind your back. it's like you're going around the web and they have cookies and are collecting this huge amount of information out who you e but you never know that. some of these companies make an effort to... >> but don't you find that scary? >> well i think it's less transparent. >> it's the dark.
>> rose: >> so on facebook if someone wants to target... say i want to advertise... i'm a band coming to the bay area. i'm going to advertise to people who like a band and they're going to... those people have said if they put in that that like that band. on those other services you can do that kind of advertising but you're going to find people based on what they've browsed around in the web and they have no control over the information that a company like google or microsoft has about you. i don't know. i think that some of those companies have made an effort to give people a page they can see all the information that the company has about them but i mean very few people are going to go do that. so in reality i think that these companies with those big ad networks are basically getting away with collecting huge amounts of information, likely way more information than people are sharing on facebook about themselves but i think because people can see how much information people are sharing about themselves on facebook it appears scarier. in reality you have control over
everything you've shared on facebook, you can take it down. >> rose: if you take it down and say enough, gone. what happens if you die? what happens then? >> you let us know we memorialize the page. if a family member lets us know someone has deceased... >> so anybody f anybody wants it taken wn and erased forever... >> you can erase forever. now, it's not perfect in the sense of if i put something up, i can take it down, it's gone. if i've shared it and someone's reshared it, it won't go down. it's out there. but it really is the point that the only things facebook knows about you are things you've done and told us. it's self-reported. >> rose: but the genius of facebook is it has the possibility of sending it out like notng else to more places. >> facebook never sends any information about anyone. >> i understand that, but it goes out because facebook has a system that allows that. >> because facebook allows people to share things. >> rose: is technology a place that women can find the kind of
opportunity that you you want them find? does it need mentoring and other things that people like sheryl sandberg can deler? >> i think the issue of women in the economy and the country a huge one. it's something i care passionately about and mark cares passionately about. we have basically a stalled revolution for women. women became 50% of the college graduates in this country in 1981 and made steady progress. more college degrees, manager degrees. and we're still making progress. over the last ten years women have stalled out at the top. women in corporate america have 15% to 16% of the board seats and of the kind of high level jobs and that hasn't moved in ten years. >> rose: why? >> oh, probably longer than we have time for. a lot of reasons. but i think we need more women to lead in their carrs and be dedicated to staying in the work force. i think the achievement gap is caused by a lot of things, by institutional barriers and all
kinds of stuff, but there's a big ambition gap. if you survey men and women in college today in this country, the men are more ambitious than the women. until women are as ambitious as men they won't achieve as much as men. >> you know that business... business change their names howard and heidi. >> yeah. barely a year ago. >> rose: so what does it mean to be mark zuckerberg today? in terms o what the revolution... in terms of the attention. a sense of how you adjust and w you assimilate and how you in a sense make sure that you are in command and it's not in commanof you. >> i don't know. i think a big piece of just to try to stay grounded... i don't know. have a simple life. i don't... so people say that the company is so valuable and
there are all these people there. but i think the number of people who i work with i stay focused on keeping them two i think are good people, spark, intellectually curious. i spend a lot of time with my girlfriend and my dog and we don't have a lot of furniture and we're trying to build products for everyone in the world. you don't want to get isolated to do that. we have a very open culture of the company where we foster interaction between not just me anpeople and everyone else. it's an en floor plan. people have desks where no one really has an office. i have a room where i meet with pele so it has alwayslass. i just think the that... it's connected to the mission of the company and i think that more flow of information, the ability
to stay connected to more people makes people more effective as people. i think that's true socially. it makes you have more fun. it feels better to be more connected to people. you have a richer life but i think in terms of doing work and in tms of learning and evolving as a person you grow more when you get people's perspectiv and when you have more of a ow from people. so that's really it. i try to live the mission of the company and embody that for the company and keep everything else in my life extremely simple. >> it's interesting to watch as closely as i have. since i've known mark over the last four years, in some ways everything's changed and in some ways nothing has changed. what's changed? he was on his way to being mark zuckerberg four years ago but now 's mark zuckerberg. (laughter) you know what i mean? >> rose: halloween kids come to hi house and knock on the door... >> right.
but we can walk around palo alto four years ago and people didn look and now they do. but when you actually know him, nothing's changed. he wears the same thing even though it's a new t-shirt. he wears the same thin, has the same girlfriend. he likes the same restaurants not necessarily restaurants i like. like really nothing's changed. he has the same group of friends but stay grounded. don't change your social circles. i have the same best friends i had since i was in high school. mark has the same friends. and this stuff matters. live your regular life. just try to build stuff that matts. that's what we're trying to do. >> rose: thank you for this. >> thank you. >> thank you for visiting us. >> rose: pleasure to be here. captioning sponsored by rose communications